David Mac (DM): Where are you from Billy?

Billy Watson (BW): I was born and raised in Jersey City, New Jersey.  That’s where I learned to surf. Then I moved out here in 1988 and I began to surf out here.

DM: What brought you out here to California?

BW: Better surf.

DM: As the editor of, “Duh Magazine” I should have guessed that.

BW: (Laughing) I worked for a surfboard manufacturer out here named Scott Henry. He gave me my first break. He was my first friend as well as my first employer. 

DM: How long have you been surfing?

BW: I’ve been surfing since 1975. Once I bought my own surfboard I got turned on to winter surfing back there, and I realized you had to surf year round if you’re going to catch any waves because it just sucks back there. But in the winter time it rocks and rolls and there’s no one around telling you what to do.  Like back east, people don’t realize it here, its seasonal and they shut the beaches down, they have swimming areas, it’s highly regulated back there. 

DM: Long boards or short boards...

BW: I ride both. Yeah, whatever it takes. I am more of a cruiser. I like to ride older mid-range boards. I learned to surf in the late 70s and 80s, I learned on twin fins and stuff. 

DM: In addition to surfing and music, which we will get to in a moment, you are also an artist.

BW: Yes I used to do art shows at coffee shops.  I used to do paintings.  I do all kinds of paintings that were found object assemblage pieces, water colors, all kinds of weird little socio-political statements using plaster and air brush.  I used to have a coffee shop show that I’d book for a month then move on to another coffee shop.  That’s how I learned to get on the phone and talk to people. I focused on coffee shops because they were easy to deal with and happy to have your art. They didn’t even want a percentage.

DM: You keep saying you used to be an artist. You don’t do shows any more.

BW: No, it just became too much of a hassle. The coffee shops started wanting a piece of the action and then they aren’t even responsible if something gets vandalized or stolen.

DM: You said you liked to use your art to make socio – political statements. Let’s talk about that.

BW: I would do things about how the Indians were tossed off of their reservations. I would just do like shocking images, silhouettes of AK 47s hanging from the ceiling that were hand cut out of foam, stuff like that. It was designed just to make people think.

DM: So you are more of a provocateur, than say someone who uses their art to forward a specific point of view.

BW: Exactly! I don’t make a statement either way. I just like to get people to think. That’s all. It’s like “What’s this guy talking about?” “Hey man, how come that American flag is purple and yellow and upside down next to those cowboys and Indians glued to the bottom of that wood?” I would say, “What do you think it is? You tell me? Why do I have to tell you? I made it. You tell me.” (laughs)

DM: Do you have any particular influence or inspiration as it applies to your art?

BW:  I’m very much influenced by the church. I spent a lot of time in churches and cathedrals looking at religious art because that was the heavy stuff at that time. It was designed to do things.  You know when you look at a cathedral its sort of tall and slender to give the effect that it’s reaching to the heavens.  It’s a bunch of bullshit of course, designed to scare people into being controlled. You have to hand it to them. It was very well thought out. I try to pay attention to that. I like to do paintings that are positive and uplifting. I use my art knowledge in my music.

DM: Let’s talk about that. How did you get interested in blues music?

BW: When I moved to San Diego, it was all 80’s crap. Then I saw The Paladins at the Belly Up Tavern and it rekindled my spirit for old style music. Then I saw Little Charlie and the Nightcats and that was it. I was hooked.  I never had heard a band with a harmonica player fronting it like that. I found it all hanging out at the Belly Up Tavern. The Belly Up was like a Mecca for blues guys that lived in San Diego.  As I met people who were more into blues, they started turning me onto the right guys. Instead of going, “Oh, I like John Mayall,” they were saying, “Hey man, that’s OK but Little Walter is the guy you should be listening to.” The guy who turned me onto Little Walter was a guy named Chris James. He and I would play together every now and then and he would show me stuff. He was a harmonica player too as well as a great guitarist and singer. He is also a historian. So he turned me on to all these guys. Chris James turned me on to the inventors and the architects of the music.

DM: When did you start playing out in public?

BW: I started to play in a band with a bunch of old guys that were kind of trying to play blues, they didn’t know what they wanted to do. They wouldn’t really commit to the blues. They taught me a lot though. By hanging out with them I learned how to be in a band. Then I joined the Mississippi Mud Sharks a few years later and that took me to Europe. I would go to these jam sessions that the Mud Sharks were hosting every Monday night at the Sand Bar in Carlsbad. It was a low down seedy beach bar.  

DM: Did you ever play at that pizza place that is on Carlsbad Village drive on the left as you are going towards the beach, The Pizza Port. They used to have (maybe still do) a real cool jukebox.

BW: We used to play music there. Years ago when it first opened it was called the Carlsbad Brewery before it was the Pizza Port.  I used to play music there when I first started playing in 94’.

DM: Another spot down there is that place called the Coyote Bar or something like that.

BW: That’s right. I’ve been playing there since 96’. 

DM: It’s been a long time since I went there but they had this cool patio with the music outside with fire rings and a very cool vibe.

BW: It’s totally cool. It can be great gig. It can also be a really sucky place to play if it’s cold out. The people that live in that area are very homogenous, they want to hear stuff like Brick House, they want to hear a band do all the hits that they are comfortable with hearing.  So it can suck playing to those people because they are total ignoramuses in every facet of their life and naturally this applies to their music. (laughs).

DM: I get that, but what is a surfer doing playing blues at the beach in California anyway? (laughs) There is however one guy anyway down in San Diego who is a terrific supporter of this music.

BW: Michael Kinsman....

DM: Bingo!

BW: It took me a long time to get to know Michael.  I would do blues in the schools while Michael was The President of the Blues Lovers United of San Diego. When I started hiring Junior Watson, I think I eventually earned his respect.

DM: Respect, after all Billy, is something you earn.

BW: I get that.  When I first started playing around town I think most people, including Michael, thought I was a clown or they just didn’t get it. 

DM:  There have been certain elements of humor present in this music for generations. It is not new to the blues. It is however new to the fans who are new to this music. Let’s talk about this.

BW: It’s great that we’re talking and I am so glad you brought this up.  Here’s what I think is hilarious. All these videos are coming out of Howlin’ Wolf where he comes crawling out on his hands and knees and he’s making funny faces.  What do these fucking blues queers do when they see that? (laughs) “Oh my God, Billy Watson did that and I made fun of him but, Howlin’ Wolf’s doing it. Oh our hero was doing it.” They must have a conniption fit.  I think it’s funny. Take Sonny Boy Williamson 2. You could hear it in his vocals, in the way he’s playing and singing. He’s goofing off the whole time, making shit up on the fly and he is singing funny stuff.  Where did the white so called blues aficionado go wrong?  How did these people miss that? It’s supposed to be fun. They just don’t get it.

DM: It probably wouldn’t surprise you that I have some thoughts as it relates to this. I don’t want to let all of them out of the bottle here but it essentially boils down to some kind of revisionist history as it relates to blues. There are those who interpret the music as being this macho, whiskey drinking kind of bare knuckles music. This may be part of the story but it is only one element of it. 

BW: Totally true!

DM: I don’t want to blow your cover here Billy as being a radical but this stuff you do dates all the way to the first recordings and live presentations of this music. It was sometimes called Hokum Blues. There was also a very grand vaudevillian tradition associated with this music.

BW: You are absolutely right on all counts. A lot of my shtick is taken from some stuff years and years ago. Take the Marx Brothers; they turned me on to all that. Those guys were just playing vaudevillian standards. Blues music is kind of steeped in that tradition. When they played the music there was always this thread of humor entwined throughout the entire thing and it was entertaining. They knew that if they just stood there and played their guitars like guys do today, people would be bored to fucking tears. (Laughs)  

DM: I should point out that even though we agree on many of these topics and I enjoy your sense of humor, you would never appear in the pages of BLUES JUNCTION if it wasn’t for your stellar musicianship. Howlin’ Wolf, to use your example, got away with his act because he was so damn good.

BW: What you’re saying is true. I have to feel good about the music first and foremost.  If the music isn’t happening, I’d feel like a jackass doing any of that stuff.  There are some nights when I hire the wrong guy or I am just having an off night. If I don’t feel the music is popping, you’re certainly not going to see as much of the comedy because I don’t feel confident enough to deliver it. But if the music’s happening  then I can jump over while Junior Watson’s doing this bizarre solo and do a funny dance  or put a mask on my head and creep up to some lady that’s not paying attention, that’s just funny. 

DM: It’s hilarious.

BW: That’s what I enjoy. It’s almost like a battle, us versus them for that brief moment.  I only do it if they’re messing with us. I’ll creep over to them and play to them so I can look them in the eye and see where they’re coming from. If they’re still douche bags then I know. Fuck that table. I’ll chase them out. Let another group of people sit there that do like what we are playing. I don’t want to see any of these assholes sitting there talking loudly. “Get the fuck out of here.” Then my friends can sit there. That’s the strategy I’ve come up with. The comedy is used to weed people out.  Chase away the idiots that are taking up space.

Restaurants love that so I never get in trouble for it.  They don’t want to see a bunch of deadbeats sitting there yacking on their phones not eating or drinking all night. They want another table in there so they love me. That’s why I’ve been able to make a living all these years.

DM: So there is truly a method to the madness. If you don’t mind me saying so and even if you do, I sense that deep down inside you have developed a self deprecating defense mechanism and I think you underestimate your own talent.

BW: You are right on both counts. I am my own worst critic. I am very hard on myself.  

DM: Let me steer this back to what I believe is a very big part of your DNA and that is humor. Let’s talk about the name of your band, The International Silver String Submarine Band. Didn’t Graham Parsons already use that name?  

BW:  We both ripped it off from an episode of the Little Rascals but Graham Parsons didn’t use the whole name. The name of the episode is called “Mike Fright.” It was an episode where the Rascals crashed a talent show under that name and they won it.  They were a bunch of ghetto street kids that showed up with homemade instruments and they just tore the place apart. It was a talent show, so there were like all these over rehearsed, little bratty rich kids with their little blazers, there were all these different acts.  The Little Rascals were waiting to go on. This real up tight emcee just kept saying “No boys.” That episode draws very close parallels to all the bologna, malarkey and high falootin bullshit that you see in music. It was going on back then and it’s still going on today.

DM: You know Billy, I think you are right. I think many of the so called blues journalists are also responsible for this “malarkey” going on in the blues world today. It wasn’t always like this. This is a relatively new phenomenon. It’s a real shame. I am also convinced that the people who claim to support this music don’t even care for it that much.

BW: I know what you mean. Take these blues societies. Unfortunately it’s a self-serving thing. We have one down here of course. They claim they’re supporting blues. What a bunch of fucking jackasses. They’re just idiots.

DM: Easy Billy.

BW: No it’s true. They’re just self-serving blues fans who are just trying to get their boyfriend a gig or husband or their girlfriend a gig somewhere.  It’s a huge conflict of interest. All the guys on the board all have bands. It’s just a way for them to get a gig and to get money. They do these stupid blues cruises and send offs. As far as blues music is concerned that’s the music they think they like. It’s a very surface thing for them. It’s a joke to them.

All they like is blues-rock or “block” as I call it. I hate the way that shit is recorded, the way it is mixed the way it is mastered. It is just so limited. James Harman once told me that the reason these people like it is because there is no classic rock any more. So “block” is the closest thing to classic–rock. I hate it all.  

DM: ....and these people hate blues music.

BW: Right! Harman and I have also talked about all the guys that win those contests, we have sat down and talked about it. He has said, “Billy, it would be cool if you won this thing. Definitely try out for it, but if you did go to Memphis, you would see what I’m talking about. It’s not what it’s cracked up to be.” I totally know what he’s talking about. You go there and you’ve got all these drunk, fucking weirdoes coming up to you telling you how great their band is. It’s very insulting.

Candye Kane was always trying to get me to go to Memphis, she’d say “Just go to the awards show and meet people.” And I would say “I’m not going to do that. No one gives a fuck about me."

DM: Woah Nelly!  Let’s stop right here. I have had many musicians express the same thoughts on this subject. Most of the serious cats go on the record because they are smart and have been around long enough that they know the score and like you, they are sick and tired of these people. I have to ask you though; do you really want to go on the record with all of this?  

BW: Obviously I am not going to tell you what to do Dave but I would appreciate it, if you don’t publish the portion of our conversation about that one particular individual. The rest is cool.

DM: Fair enough. Let’s talk about the music. Maybe we should have done that first because once you start talking about music those people that you may have offended would have stopped reading. I first heard your music many years ago when it was played on Jeff Scott’s now long gone radio show.

BW: Jeff played our first album. That was very cool of him.

DM: Hey Billy, Jeff only played music he liked because he would actually listen to the music while he was on the air. He wasn’t sitting there texting, tweeting and posting on Facebook while he was on the air. He loves this music. It isn’t just a game to him to elevate his own social profile, get into gigs for free and befriend the musicians.  

BW: He played our first record. It was a self titled CD. That was recorded in 1998. I had a pretty cool band that included James Harman’s guitar player at the time, Robbie Eason. Robbie started playing professionally when he was 15. He grew up in Fallbrook, CA. So did Nathan James. There’s something in the water in Fallbrook because all these great guitarists come out of Fallbrook. Nathan was also on the album. Robin Henkel sang on an Elmore James tune called You Know You’re Wrong. I played harp behind him on it. It was just big fun. It was just a great time.  We were really excited with that record.  We recorded that at the Belly Up. They had a little recording studio in the back.  So that was the beginning man. I really enjoyed that record.

DM: On Secret 8: Blues for the Modern Frontier the liner notes say Billy Watson, “Vocals, Harmonica and Jet Pack” (exaggerated AM radio voice) WHO WERE SOME OF YOUR EARLY INFLUENCES ON JET PACK?

BW: (laughing) I don’t want to discuss it. (still laughing) My jet pack it is a very personal thing. Secret 8 is my favorite though.

DM: I like it but I have always had a weakness for your 2007 CD, Blowing Crow. For our readers who may not know this, as the album title implies, it is an all chromatic harp album. You just don’t hear that much chromatic harp playing any more. Why do you think this is?

BW:  That’s true, a lot of harp players don’t want anything to do with it because they’re very finicky. You have to have a big amp that pushes a lot of air when you’re playing that instrument or you have to have a band that can play quiet and no one can do that anymore.

DM: Unless you have Junior Watson.

BW: Exactly!  When I was able to hire Junior Watson my musical ability and career jumped.  I feel that it got me off of a plateau because he brought me to that place with his dynamics. He’s like a big brother.

DM: (Laughing) I thought you were related. You do have the same last name.

BW:  He’s like “don’t do that, do this.” He tells me what to do but he’s always right. Sometimes he’s a little hard on me and it hurts my feelings every now and then but that’s my fault.  He doesn’t mean any harm, but he’s a little nutty you know. 

DM: He really understands how to play with a harmonica player. That seems like an almost lost art form.

BW:  I know. He just backs you up. He is there for you.  If the gig sucks, he doesn’t care. He plays the same way no matter how shitty the gig is or how good it is. He loves the music and he drives it.

DM: I have seen him live more times than I can count through these many years. I can’t recall ever hearing him have a bad day.

BW:  Every now and then he’s a little off but his bad day is better than anyone’s good day.  He’s a master, there’s no comparison really.

DM: I absolutely love that wild instrumental, I Found Out, on Blowin’ Crow, which is one of your originals.

BW: That one’s got like a Jimmy Smith bass line, like a foot pedal bass line. It’s wicked!  I came up with that little head at the beginning.  I know that William Clarke did that kind of stuff. My attack is a little different.  The guys made it happen. We would just make it happen live in the studio.  Nathan produced that album and plays on it.

DM: We covered a lot of ground. Is there anything else we should talk about?

BW: I really enjoyed it.

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