One of the great joys of my life has been to visit with so many of the remarkable artists who make the music we love. Of all the people who I have interviewed through the years, I can’t think of anyone who has the ability to consistently articulate his thoughts in such a compelling way on what he calls, ‘this illusionary music’ better than Al Blake. 

Blake is a guitarist, harmonica player, producer, songwriter, band leader and singer. Perhaps he is best known as a founding member of one of the most superlative bands to stride across the blues landscape, The Hollywood Fats Band. 

Al Blake has spent a great deal of time over the past 40 years or so writing and speaking on the subject of blues music. This interview is the culmination of years of contemplation, reflection and some deeply rooted convictions based on some serious thought. 

This interview, which took place in the fall of 2011, remains, in my view, the most important piece ever “published” in this ezine. I think of it as ‘Al Blake: Unplugged, Unfettered, Unleashed and Unapologetic’. 

This is big dose of Big Al Blake who tells it like it is. Enjoy...

 “From the Mountain Top on a Clear Day” 

David Mac (DM): You and I have spent a great deal of time discussing the history and the future of the blues. We have also touched on a great deal of other topics in which we share a mutual interest. One of these topics is Native American art. Let’s start there.

Al Blake (AB): After the Hollywood Fats Band broke up in 1981, I walked away from music. I took ten years off. As you know I have a tremendous fascination with history and art. I combined those two passions and opened an art gallery in Laguna Beach called Sun Stone. Back in those days there was this trend developing in the art world with people collecting classic Native American art. I was heavily involved with that scene.

DM: Is there anything about this interest you have in Native-American history and art that you have applied to your music?

AB: Not directly in an artistic sense but it does affect the way I look at the music and why I got back into the music. There is a timeless quality to Native American art. You can, for instance, take a piece of European art or music and pretty much pin it down to a specific time period. Through the centuries, Native Americans made art in many cases that can’t be traced to any specific period. Its importance was not tied to any fashion or any particular trend. We attach value to music based on status. Status is often based on passing trends and fads. Native American art is completely liberated from these artificial restraints.

One day I had one of those light bulb moments, as I call them, and realized that’s why I love blues music so much. When played properly, it is timeless. The music has a freedom that doesn’t have to be connected to or attached to a particular trend or fad yet still has value in and of itself.

When African–Americans first made this music, they made it for themselves. They spoke in the language of music that wasn’t tied to any European tradition. That is the ultimate ‘fuck you’. It is sophisticated anarchy if you will. This music is freedom in a real sense.  

You know there is that term ‘alternative music’. Well blues was the first alt music if you will. It has always been alternative music. It was throughout most of its history played by and for African-Americans. That represented an extremely small percentage of the population. In the south where this music flourished amoungst the African- American population, it was very unlikely that white people would ever hear this music at all.

In the 1920’s the voice of the black man could be heard for the first time. It came SCREAMING out of phonographs. It was a very foreign and dissonant sound to many in the Anglo community. It was like nothing they had ever heard. It was the first time African–Americans had a voice that could be heard beyond their own neighborhoods. White people have been trying to figure out this language ever since. For a time in the 20’s and in the early 1930’s blues was popular music. Then that black voice got frozen out of the music business and that voice is still trying to be silenced today.

DM: How?

AB: In many ways that we can discuss, but one example is that Anglos have attempted to marginalize this music by referring to it as primitive music. The same thing happened in the art world. What was once called primitive art is now known as 'first art'. Think about what a beautiful thing that is. Blues music is not primitive at all. In the context of American music, blues should be known as 'first music'. Blues in fact is very complex music. It has been marginalized in the public domain by those who don’t understand it. It’s not the music that isn’t sophisticated. It is the record business that has never been interested in marketing pure black expression. It is what Alan Lomax spoke about when he talked about how the record industry stopped recording the early blues artists. It became more and more difficult for them to get work and therefore gave the illusion to the American record buying public that their music had no value. It amounted to an attack on pure black expression. The great determining factor in any art is time. This music has stood the test of time despite how poorly it has been treated in the commercial marketplace.

DM: In your bio on the Delta Groove Records website, you are described as being one of the most serious students of the genre and a person with an almost encyclopedic knowledge of blues history. Do you ever worry that someday you will reach the end of the road? That you will have heard every important blues musician or every important recording?

AB: Never! There is so much out there yet to be explored. It is ENDLESS. Take a look at the vast catalog of recordings that is now available on Document Records for instance. How about that song that I absolutely love on that CD you gave me last fall by Big Boy Teddy Edwards? That song, "Who Did You Give My Barbecue To?" was recorded in 1934. It has some really great players on there, including Big Bill Broonzy on guitar, and a serious groove that swings hard. I never heard that song before. It is a lot of fun when you hear something that good you never heard before.  

DM: It is a blast to live in these heady technological times when we have so much music, new and old, available for our enjoyment.

AB: Yet blues remains a mystery to a lot of folks out there. Throughout the history of this music you might get a glimpse here and there of blues music but you never had the chance until now to see the whole view.

DM: What do you mean?

AB: Blues is now available for virtually everyone to hear. Think about it. The artists throughout much of the history of this music could hear only people in their own town play this music. Maybe an itinerant musician would come through a town and share his gift. New technology for me is like standing on a mountaintop on a clear day.

DM: How’s that?

AB: Picture yourself climbing a mountain with the expectation that when you reach the summit you will have a beautiful expansive view. The problem is that when you get to the summit your view might be obstructed by the clouds. Throughout the 90 year history of recorded blues music the clouds might part for a moment or two. You might be able to catch a glimpse of Memphis Slim or even further out in the distance you might be able to see the Mississippi Sheiks. Maybe you could hear this music on an old scratchy record, if you could get your hands on that old record at all.

That has all changed of course. Like you said we are so fortunate to live in a time with the technological advances that make it possible to listen to virtually anything we want any time we want. I have loaded song after song right off the internet onto my new phone. I have downloaded a bunch of YouTube videos of performances from the 1920’s and 30’s for instance. They aren’t videos per se but you can hear the recordings right on my phone through a pair of headphones. It is like the clouds have parted and you look out from the mountain top and see forever. You can see things or in this case hear things that were only available, if you were a hard core collector. For the first time we can hear virtually everything that has ever been recorded.

DM: Not only that, folks don’t even have to leave their homes to acquire this music.

AB: True that. People can shop online. They can download one tune at a time or a whole album. The point being is that we have this music available to us as far as the eye can see. We can begin to de-mythologize some of these artists and their recordings that previous generations might not have been able to find or whom they could only catch a glimpse. This is the first time in history when this is possible. It is a wonderful view from the mountain top on a clear day.

Innovation and the De-evolution of Blues

DM: Through this vast, expansive perspective that technology has provided us, why do you think more people don’t know how to play this music and the people who should know better promote people who can’t play this music?

AB: There are a lot of reasons of course, but for starters blues music is very complex. People who don’t understand blues want to simplify it to suit their own lack of understanding of the music or their own lack of talent. They can play three chords so they become blues musicians for instance. They, in many cases, couldn’t hack it in the rock world so they come and play in our sandbox. That isn’t good enough for them so they say, “Hey blues music should sound more like rock music.” Then they attempt to tear down something, in this case blues music, that they don’t understand in the first place. They don’t even know what they are attempting to destroy. There is such a childish naiveté that surrounds many of these so called blues artists which is sad. It’s embarrassing really. These people then have the audacity to say they are innovators. They have such a limited perspective of what they are doing that they don’t realize what they are undoing.

There are no shortcuts. One should spend the time to know the meaning of this music. It may take decades to learn the language of the blues and to be able to speak it fluently. Then and only then will you know whether or not you are an innovator. Let me ask a couple of questions, 1) If this music doesn’t mean a whole hell of a lot to you in the first place why are you trying to innovate it? And 2) How can you innovate something you don’t understand?

DM: I don’t know.

AB: You can’t. It has been argued that blues and jazz has to be in a perpetual state of innovation. This implies that no previous achievement in these fields merits serious contemplation or possesses lasting value. Mass media feeds us the illusion that our music is evolving when in fact it has devolved. We are fed the illusion of innovation and freedom. Let me pose another question, if our music is evolving and growing and those that are practitioners of this music are innovators, why then with all this innovation is there always less blues?

DM: I know the answer to that question but for the sake of clarity to our readers would you be kind enough to explain what you mean by ‘less blues’?

AB: What I mean is that when people add different sonic elements to the music, other facets of the music are lost. What is often added, under the guise of modernization and innovation is volume, speed and technology. What has been lost are the things that make this music so beautiful and compelling in the first place.

DM: Such as...

AB: The subtlety of tone, the poetic nuances and tonal dynamics are things that get buried under an avalanche of volume and notes. Often when you see a modern day, so called blues man they perform as if they are getting paid by the note. This so called blues artist of course is just pandering to an audience that was raised on rock music.

The blues represents the full range of human emotion with the framework and structure of the music. The possibilities are endless within this context. Very typically when contemporary artists try and interpret the blues musical form, it is often just one emotion that gets serviced. It is always at the top of the emotional register. The old masters of this music gave their audiences the full range of human emotion. When just one emotion is put on display it sounds ridiculous but this has been going on for so long it has become acceptable.

DM: For example...

AB: There are hundreds of examples in blues but let me cite a guy who took the soul out of soul music and made a fortune in doing so, Michael Bolton. He only shared one emotion and it was at the top of the emotional register. He took every piece of material and applied the same emotion to it. That doesn’t represent the true human condition and, therefore, sure in the hell isn’t very soulful. It isn’t hard to think of how many people apply the same narrow interpretation of human emotions to blues music.

I read an interview one time with the great soul singer Bill Withers. He was having a good run of success back in the early 70’s. Then a bunch of white record company producers came in and told Withers what they wanted him to sound like. He called them “Blacksperts.” He said to hell with it and quit the business for years. I think that is what we have in the blues today, a bunch of folks who think they are ‘Blacksperts’.

Ruth Brown saw this coming ten years earlier when she said, “They are taking the black out of blues.”

The great writer and music critic Jim Washburn wrote back in 2003, “What was once one of the most vibrant, innovative forms of American musical expression has become emotionally muscle-bound, so sausage packed with overwrought bluster and showboating that its practioners wouldn’t recognize a real feeling if it sat on their face, which would at least shut them the fuck up".

DM: (laughing) Wow...I remember reading that. Thank you, Jim. Does this dovetail back to that old argument that you have to be black to be able to interpret this music properly and to be able to create music in these deeply rooted African-American traditions?

AB: Absolutely not. It is not about race anymore. It is about how hard are you are willing to study, how hard it is to play this music and how much natural talent the artist possesses. The early pioneers of this music were all black of course. They were so good at it because, 1) they invented the language and 2) they worked at it so hard. This expression meant everything to them. They were not interlopers. It is a very simple concept that is not often discussed because people don’t want to hear it, but blues is a series of languages with multiple esoteric dialects that are in fact difficult to learn.  

DM: Let me extrapolate something from that answer that I would like you to expand upon, if you will. It is the concept of expression that as you said, meant everything to the pioneers of this music.

AB: That is an important concept to consider. I think the music that is created by people who have no other voice of expression is inherently more emotional. Blues falls into this category. Think about it. There are many people, yourself for example, who can express their views and feelings through the written word for instance.

DM: Or other mediums...

AB: Exactly. For the African–Americans, music was the primary vehicle for self expression. This is not an exclusive providence of African–Americans of course. There are so many examples of true emotional expression through music. Spanish gypsy flamenco music comes to mind. Like blues, it often expresses very sexually charged raw emotion. 

DM: There are those out there who have said people like you and me, who really enjoy the history of this music, would not be hip to Muddy Waters and other Chicago blues artists electrifying the music. The argument follows that because they were such radical innovators, so called traditionalists like us would not celebrate the innovations we now take for granted.

AB: That is a classic example of first level thinking. I have heard that assertion and it hasn’t been thought through. I don’t have to tell you that when you take a stand, present another point of view and tell the truth there are those out there who will scramble around like a bunch of idiots to try and stop at nothing to discredit you. They usually aren’t smart enough to engage you in any kind of intelligent discourse so they throw up a statement like that. By the way it is an easy assertion to address. 

The difference between the post war innovators in Chicago like Muddy and Little Walter for instance, is that they already knew the language of the blues in a deep and profound way. They were deeply rooted in the country blues traditions long before they began to form the electric small combos. They loved the music of their parents' generation. The concept of music as having a generation gap is providence of rock and roll and didn’t apply to blues music. Blues music was so deeply ensconced in their psyche. As a youngster Muddy Waters would walk ten miles to hear blues artists perform. These artists had an understanding of the music and knew what they were changing. They understood their own innovations and why they were being innovators in the first place. That of course is the obvious distinction.

DM: Why do you think there is such a dearth of intelligent thought and not more of, as you put it, contemplation and reflection as it relates to blues music?

AB: Intellectual laziness perhaps. It is as if the blues world is filled with people who are embarrassed to sound intelligent. Intelligent thought doesn’t comport with a lot of people’s personal agendas.There are a lot of folks who treat our music very poorly. They try and take advantage of people’s lack of understanding as it relates to blues to forward their own careers.  

DM: Why do you think the blues world puts up with this nonsense? The jazz world for instance never puts up with interlopers and posers to the degree that the blues world is willing to tolerate. What is it about blues that attracts these dilettantes?

AB: It is because blues music is like a mirage. It fosters illusions. It is a very mysterious, illusionary music. Sure, people can play a one, four, five chord progression, but this does NOT make them blues musicians. Blues is a very esoteric musical language. It is a language of colors and shading. It is a language of tone, subtlety and nuance. These languages can’t be put on paper. It is about creating space around the instruments. It is about combining music from disparate influences within the context of blues and creating a dynamic sound that has deep soul and style. I think that certain art forms are worthy of contemplation. I know this makes some people very uncomfortable but in my view blues music is an art form that IS worthy of contemplation.

Real Pain

DM: Let’s shift gears for a moment and talk about the misconceptions about blues music that seem to have a grip on people outside the blues community.

AB: Let’s start with the people inside the blues community. I don’t think there are all that many people who say they support this music who give it much more thought than the complete novice.

For starters there is the cliché that is so pervasive, which is that you have to have experienced some sort of major pain in your life to create authentic blues music. Everyone who has ever lived has experienced pain. Does this make them a blues musician? It is not pain alone that qualifies you as blues musician. It like many aspects of the human condition in that it is infinitely more complex than that. 

The real pain a true blues artist of greatness experiences comes from the intensity of the work and the truth that comes out of that work. That truth is constantly going up against the intensity of the irrational opposition to both the artists’ greatness and the true depth of the truth coming out of the music that the artist is creating. That is real pain. With very few exceptions the real blues artist feels this pain.

DM: Here is the big question; it’s the one that gets asked all the time. Why hasn’t blues music ever reached a wider audience?

AB: For starters, for the very reasons we have discussed. Beyond that, it is because it is easy to play but extremely difficult to play well, be an original and have your own voice all at the same time. People are turned off to bad blues and I don’t blame them one bit. There is nothing worse than bad blues. The music being passed off as blues in many cases isn’t blues at all.

DM: What is it then?

AB: Anything but blues. Here’s an example. Remember back 20-30 years ago there were a bunch of people playing so called Dixieland jazz. These groups would play at retirement communities and other places. Very often these ensembles weren’t playing Dixieland jazz at all. It was just three or four old dudes playing some kind of music in straw hats. Most folks didn’t know the difference but if you asked someone if they like Dixieland jazz, they might say, “Yea, I heard Dixieland jazz once. I didn’t care for it.” The fact is they never heard Dixieland jazz, just some nice old white guys in straw hats passing themselves off as Dixieland jazz musicians. Essentially the same thing seems to take place in the blues world today. I think that is tragic.

DM: Posers dressed in Blues Brothers outfits...that type of thing.

AB: Exactly...but it goes beyond that. The larger issue is that no one seems to hold any of these artists to a higher standard. Never in the history of this music has the bar been set so low. No wonder mediocrity thrives in today’s marketplace of blues music. It’s like the Little Leagues of today that give every player on every team a trophy. These kids grow up and find that the real world doesn’t give away trophies for just showing up.

DM: The blues world does though. Why do you think this is the case?

AB: At some point it became about politics in the blues world. The blues today represents a tiny fraction of the music industry. It might as well for sake of illustration be the size of the head of a pin. How many publicists, promoters, organizations, societies, foundations and even musicians can fit on the head of that pin? Not many.  

I don’t think the people who are promoting this music wake up in the morning and say to themselves, "How will I go about destroying blues music today?" I am guessing many of these blues advocates are very well intentioned people. You know what they say about good intentions? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

While everyone is playing politics, the music becomes secondary and gets pushed off to the side. You have to be willing NOT to play the game. You have to have the courage to stick your neck out and NOT play politics with this music. There is a lot of intellectual dishonesty out there in the blues world.

Few people want to confront the truth that is in blues music. It is too difficult. So instead they try and redefine it out of existence. This places more stress on the serious musicians who dare to be advocates of principle. The music industry is in a state of unchecked decadence. When there is a greater degree of decadence it takes a higher level of heroism to fight this because there is much less reward.

The serious blues musician forges a career outside the forces of mainstream popular culture, but is being constantly measured against it. In my world of blues music, questions of integrity can become questions of survival. This can become very personal in terms of how we see ourselves. Can we survive without the validation that others receive by playing politics and pandering to the demands of mass culture and the music industry? Another question that is forced upon me is, do I want to be ostracized for the stand I have taken on my musical values? At some point will this integrity ever become malleable? One has to have the courage of their convictions to be able to live with those questions.

DM: You point out that we are in an industry that is very political. With politics comes corruption. Isn’t this just a case of stating the obvious?

AB: I don’t necessarily think it is that obvious to a lot of people. Nobody is holding up a sign saying, “I am corrupt.” Corruption is usually disguised as liberation. Identifying corruption in a time and place where it is the norm, where it masquerades as the standard is a risky proposition. Corruption sits in the heart of the blues industry where the absurd also resides.

Values

DM: Let me play devil’s advocate for a moment. There are those out there that would contend that you are just being a stodgy traditionalist, a purest if you will. You are a guy who is not comfortable with change and are trying to keep people from moving this music forward.

AB: There are many ways to answer that assertion. Let me try this tact. Since the 1960’s blues has been under siege as an art form. The record industry has been trying to water down pure black expression to make it ‘more white’ and therefore more marketable to a wider audience. When you change that fundamental paradigm of the blues you kill it. They couch this destruction of blues music by saying they are moving it forward or being innovative. Then when the occasional person calls them on this, they say that person is ‘old fashioned’. In the modern world of disposable fast food music, I suppose that is meant to be an insult.

DM: There are so many examples in our culture that celebrate the values of tradition where that ‘thing’ can be viewed within the context of its own beauty. That ‘thing’ doesn’t have to be tied to a trend or possess some vague notion of modernism to have beauty and therefore value.

AB: For the variety of reasons that we have discussed, this doesn’t seem to apply to blues music. It could, which is why we are having this discussion in the first place.

For example, Ralph Lauren has made a fortune by presenting fashion that is rooted in tradition. It has taste, style and sophistication. His fashions are considered classics. He isn’t vilified for being a traditionalist, a purest or God forbid, old fashioned.

Take another example. Look at the classic car industry. People put value in the wonderfully beautiful detailing and designs that are present in classic American cars.  I am not saying that the guy who has a 1950’s perfectly restored classic car in his garage shouldn’t have a 2012 BMW. There is room for both. Just don’t try and make the 57’ Chevy look like the 2012 BMW. You can’t compare these two automobiles, each has its own unique style and beauty.

Listen Dave, I can take you to any of world’s great museums and we could enjoy some of the pre-Columbian art that is over 1,000 years old. Much of this art is every bit as beautiful and timeless as anything created today. The blues is no different. It is a timeless art form that happens to be the quintessential American music. I know it has tremendous value.

A Longing for Excellence

DM: Let’s talk just a little about your approach to this music. We covered that a little bit in our discussion last October but what are some of your thoughts as it relates to your music?

AB: I like to let my music speak for itself but I often think of a quote by Duke Ellington, who said, ‘I would rather be a first rate me than a second rate somebody else.’

I think about my teachers, Louis Myers, James Cotton, Joe Willie Wilkins and George “Harmonica” Smith. I think about what they went through to make their music. I think to myself, "Who am I to take shortcuts with this music?" I always aspire to honor my mentors. Just think about the hardships they had to endure. I do what I do for them.

Love me or hate me no one can say I didn’t walk the path. I have the courage to stand behind what I believe. If you knock on the door of my soul it will always be open. Always! 

DM: Are you an idealist?

AB: Yes and I don’t apologize for it. That might put people off and that’s fine. Idealism is a good thing. It is a longing for excellence, that’s all. It is nothing to be afraid of. What is wrong with that?

Blues music is what I do. I don’t take any credit for my God-given talent. I will take credit for the good I do with my talent. Your work life absolutely should be a platform for doing good in the world. Most noble causes in this world have not been especially popular. The presentation of great blues music is one of these noble causes and clearly isn’t particularly popular.

Coda

AB: Let me make something clear. These concepts and ideas I put forth, hopefully, will stimulate some discussion out there that is rooted in some intellectual and artistic integrity. I am NOT proselytizing but simply sharing my thoughts on these topics. I think they are, by and large, concepts that haven’t been given a forum for many of the reasons I have mentioned. Agree with me, disagree with me, that’s fine. That isn’t the point. The point is that these views are woefully underrepresented in the public forum. Thanks Dave for providing a platform where these often underappreciated, and at times even controversial, ideas can see the light of day.

DM: It is my pleasure and privilege Al. Thank you.

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