There is a gentleman by the name of Sam Burckhardt whom I never met, but based on his music and background, I suspected would make for an interesting interview. The Chicago based sax player didn’t disappoint. We found an immediate rapport based on our mutual affection for American music. Sam follows in the great windy city sax traditions of J.T. Brown, Eddie Shaw and others. However, Sam’s musical vocabulary goes way beyond the Windy City limits. His brand new solo album, Fly Over on Airway Records is a favorite here at the JUNCTION. So the time seemed right to catch up with Sam, The Swiss Sax Sensation.

David Mac (DM): As a kid growing up in Switzerland do you remember some of your earliest exposures to music?

Sam Burckhardt (SB): I do. I’m the fourth of four children. Dave, we are the same age, so perhaps like yourself and a lot of kids we listened to a lot of the music of the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. With the Stones it is just a Stone’s throw away (no pun intended) from the blues. So when you start to explore their music, the blues is not hard to find.

DM: Young people on both sides of the Atlantic were exposed to those bands, but not everybody made that blues connection like you did.

SB: I was also very fortunate to hear many of the blues greats when they came through Europe in the 60’s and mostly 70’s starting with those American Folk Blues Festivals.

DM:  I know this goes a long way back, but do you remember any of the artists on those shows you attended?

SB:  Yes I do. There was Roosevelt Sykes, Bukka White, Lightnin’ Slim, Little Brother Montgomery and the list goes on. It was just incredible. I think I can safely say I heard more blues than your average American.

DM: I don’t doubt that for a minute. It is pretty easy to speculate as to why Americans turned their back from this music.  From a European perspective, why did this music resonate with listeners living somewhere so far from this music’s origins?  

SB: I can only speculate as well, but I would think that it is many things. Part of it is with my parent’s generation; it was their connection to America from our countries’ mutual experiences in World War 2. Also you can’t underestimate the power of American movies and icons like Clarke Gable, Spencer Tracy, Humphrey Bogart and so on. American culture and influence were everywhere. It was a very powerful and attractive thing in those days.

I also think Europe, and my generation in particular, was just ready for a different type of music. Through our parents we all heard classical music.  However, we weren’t really into classical music. So there was this discovery of this new music which was just so vibrant and expressed something different.

DM: Do you remember the first blues artist that you connected with or whose music moved you in certain way?

SB: It was Champion Jack Dupree. He lived in Europe at that point. He had recordings that included Mickey Baker on guitar. There were actually a lot of American blues guys who lived in Europe and they ended up playing with the jazz guys who lived in Europe. It was an interesting mix.

DM: Was there anything in particular about Champion Jack Dupree’s music that attracted you?

SB: Yes...I know you’re familiar with his music Dave. He had such a great approach. It is kind of simple without being simplistic. It is just straight ahead. Like that song The Walking Blues; I love that song.  It is just so effective.

I actually met him when I was kid. I was only eight years old, but I went to this club and they let me in. It was the Club Atlantis in my hometown of Basel. That just blew me away to hear Jack Dupree live. There were just so many opportunities to be exposed to this music. I got to hear Eddie Boyd. I had the opportunity to play with him. That of course was such a huge thrill. That kind of planted the seed in my heart.  

DM: Let’s back up a minute and talk about your musical education. One doesn’t just wake one day and find himself playing with the likes of Eddie Boyd.

SB: Growing up in central Europe, music is just part of your upbringing. I had a wonderful teacher who taught me how to play the recorder. As I got older I realized (laughing) it’s just not cool to play the recorder.

So I started playing the violin. My mother thought that would be a great instrument to play. So I dutifully went to all my lessons. My teacher told me each week after my lesson that I still wasn’t playing very well and that I should go home and practice some more. Obviously for a seven or eight year old it wasn’t very encouraging to hear that. So I stopped putting much time into that and it soon became a real drag.

The real breakthrough for me was when I first met Chester Gill. He was from Barbados and had moved to Switzerland where he married a Swiss girl and settled in Basel. I went to a birthday party and heard Chester Gill play guitar and sing.

DM: What kind of music did he present that day?

SB: He played blues and calypso. It was just incredible. It was hip and great. It was just so wonderful that it inspired my brother who played guitar and me on drums to play together. My mother wasn’t too happy about this direction we took musically speaking, but my father felt that it was important that we do something.  

I started to take drum lessons with Chester. I’ll never forget my first lesson. He showed me how to set up the drum kit and taught me a simple 4/4 rhythm. So I practiced on that. When my time was up, the next student walked in. I started to leave and said, “Goodbye Mr. Gill.” and he said “No, no just hold on.”

The next student was a trombone player. Chester said, “We will play a blues and you play what I just taught you.”  So he counted it off and I played, (vocalizing) ‘boom chaka boom chaka boom.’ It was pretty amazing to me that there I was at my first lesson playing real music with another musician. It was something I never experienced in all that time playing classical violin. It was such an awakening. So from that moment, that’s all I wanted to do is make music with other people.   

DM: That is such an important concept. Many youngsters, especially in the blues field play to recordings alone in their bedrooms and never get beyond that. They sometimes feel that they will never connect with others who share their same passion for this music.

SB: My main goal was to play in a band. There was a band in town that my brother played in. They played a lot around town and I really wanted to be a part of that, but they already had a drummer. I also had done a couple of gigs as a drummer. As you know, if you are a drummer, you have to be the first one there and the last to go home. So I thought it would be cool to take up the saxophone. I mean all you do is take your instrument out of the case and start blowing.

So I asked Mr. Gill if he could help me find a sax. This was in the early 70’s and as you know Dave most people in those days, in our generation wanted to play just about anything but sax. So I got a used sax and had it overhauled. I worked on it so I could play at the next rehearsal of my brother’s band. So that’s what I did and I took it from there.

DM: Were there any players in particular in those days that helped to inspire you and maybe give you some ideas as you took up this new instrument?

SB: Eddie “Cleanhead Vinson. He had such a super tone and such a great approach to phrasing a tune and how to approach a melody. Lester Young was another favorite of mine. I was lucky enough to hear the Basie Band in 1984. Oscar Peterson opened up the show. Then he and Basie played duets. Eventually the whole band joined in and then Joe Turner came out and closed the show with the band.

DM: Oh my God. That gives me chills just thinking about it.

SB: I went to the show that night really to hear Big Joe Turner, but I ended up also hearing Eddie “Lockjaw” Davis and others.

DM: I believe Marshal Royal was playing in the band in those days

SB: YES! YES! Even without an amplifier you could hear his tone going all evening. It was incredible. It was a very important moment for me to hear such an incredible band and to learn firsthand what swing was all about. I mean they swung...HARD.

DM: Where was that show?

SB: That show and many others took place in Basel. The town, while not all that big, always had a historical and cultural importance that has always been greater than its size. There has been an interest in jazz in Basel since the 20’s. The Hot Club which was a phenomenon in France in the 20’s and 30’s started up in Basel as well. Coleman Hawkins played here. Even Ellington played in Basel at some point.

Basel has always had a rich tradition in the arts going back centuries. Culture was always important and music was always important. While some may have looked down on jazz as an art form and didn’t take it seriously, there were others here in Europe and in my hometown who took it very seriously as an art form.

DM: These days there seems to be quite a big distinction between jazz and blues. I don’t understand a need for that or why people would even feel that way about either style of music.

SB: I never saw a reason to do that. Number one, that type of thinking does not go along with how I feel about the music and number two, having played with Sunnyland (Slim) who helped to create post war blues as we know it, while he was aware of the distinction, never really applied those thoughts to his approach to the way he played.  I mean Clarke Terry played in his band when he was young before the war. Look at John Coltrane who played in rhythm & blues bands before hooking up with Miles (Davis) and then moving on from there. Red Holloway...the list goes on forever.

Part of this had to do with helping to create steady employment for the individual musicians, but it also helped to hone their discipline and be a source for new and fresh ideas.

DM: I think both genres have more to gain from some type of artistic if not strategic alliance than they have to lose.

SB: I couldn’t agree more. They share the same history. They are natural allies

DM: Amen to that! In our next conversation I would also like to discuss your move to the U.S., your association with some of the most important figures in American music history and your brand new album Fly Over with the incomparable Joel Paterson.

SB: I look forward to that Dave. Talk to you soon.

Read Part two of my conversation with Sam Burckhardt in the April Edition of BLUES JUNCTION.